Many of Indymedia's readers will already be aware that the proposed/opposed supermarket development for the Ashley Down/Mid Gloucester Road area will, if it goes ahead, be a Sainsburys: not, as previously supposed, a Tescos. The existing Gloucester Road Sainsburys convenience store will close, and a new much bigger Sainsburys will open adjacent to the existing John Cabot public house on Ashley Down Road. There is some sense of relief that the proposed new store will not be a Tescos, and it seems possible that the well-established Somerfield supermarket will be able to survive through its policy of affordable pricing and maintain itself as current local shoppers favourite. Doubtless others in the Indymedia network will have relevant info to add.
It wasn't that long ago that Sainsburys were kings of the supermarket profit race. Now its Tescos, in a few years it may well be someone else. So what, different name, same market policy.
Shurely the only good supermarket is the one that isn't there, at all, anywhere. Pie in the sky thinking perhaps? Well society/humanity survived for long enough without them before. They are only buildings, which can go up, and come down.
For gods sake they are all supermarkets and they all compete with small businesses - One isnt intrinsically worse than the others (if you discount Scumerfield's gone-off veg and Sainsburys high prices). If you dont like it, then use one of the decent food shops in the area - eg Alex's veg, Scoopaway, The Breadstore. People go there because they sell good products.
Last week it was not 'another' supermarket from bogofs; now its not 'any' supermarket; unless perhaps Fresh and Wild or some other indy sanctioned purveyor of produce?
If you have any doubt about the 'need' for an alternative to the very poor faire on offer on the Gloucester Rd look no further than to the success of the Sainsburys Local since it opened where it is.
I buy groceries from Pawsons, meat from Stutts or Murrays and bread from Joes or the Breadstore. But I still go once a week to Tescos by car to do the family shop. Not because Im a fan of Tescos, but because its nearest.
With a real purveyor of produce on the block i wont have to; I can walk, my car journeys will be less; Ill still support my local shops who excel at what they do best, but they cant do it all and I dont have the time to hunt for the things I need in Local or Metro size convenience stores on a will they or wont they have it basis.
I am a local resident who for the last 6 months has been a member of BOGOFS.
BOGOFS stands for Bishopston Opposing Glut OF Supermarkets.
We are not anti-supermarkets. We are against this particular development only. This is a single issue campaign.
According to the application document that Sainsbury's have submitted, they are targetting around 25% of their trade from the local stores on the Gloucester Road.
The New Economics Foundation says that stores local to new supermarket developments who experience a 17% reduction in turnover WILL close down.
They will probably be offering, in order to compete with Tesco Golden Hill and Tesco Eastgate Centre, as well as general food, a fruit & veg section, a meat counter (i.e. in-house butcher), a bakery, cafe, photo-processing, off-licence, newsagents, Deli, Flowers and a Pharmacy.
I really hope that Pawsons, Stutts, Crawfords, Co-op, Cibo's, Licata's, Joe's, Pearce's, Cafe 2000, Romantica, Daltons, Rosebud, Soods, Ashgrove Pharmacy et al can remain competitive because if they can't they will close down and be replaced by estate agents, charity shops and bookies.
I used to work for Marcus Wells, who owns the Breadstore, when he ran the Sunflower bakery - where Tim Franklin's Star Cafe is now. You may have eaten one of my hand-crafted croissants or jammy doughnuts. Even he closed down. Why? He told me that he was unable to compete with Somerfield.
If that is the effect of the small Somerfield store on his bakery, what will be the effect of a Sainsbury's store 4 times the size of Somerfield be on the Gloucester Road? I hate to think.
I would strongy suggest that you read the application and see what it entails. The devil as they say is in the detail.
For example, 156 space car park, expected number of cars entering the site during peak period, 194. Presumably these cars are going to be backed up along Merton Road waiting to get into the car park. I think that a queue of 38 cars will probably stretch the length of Merton Road and back onto the Gloucester Road, which is also planned to be narrowed outside Horders. What do you think will be the impact of cars queueing on teh Gloucester Road to get into Merton Road?This data is supplied by the transport consultant that Sainsbury's employed for the development and taken by me from the application document.
All BOGOFS is saying is that the retail trade pie for the Gloucester Road should be shared not gobbled up by a single major supermarket development.
Bristol City Council itself recognises that this area of Bristol suffers from a severe lack of light industrial and office space. This area does not suffer from lack of retail space as you are doubtless aware.
If you would like to meet the BOGOFS group to discuss this issue further please come to one of our numerous public meetings - all advertised on www.bogofs.org.
When Marcus closed down the Breadstore in Horfield he told me it was because the strain of running TWO successful bread shops on his time and family was too much and someting had to give.
And mark this; if what you say is true, howcome Joes are still a thriving bakery less than 50 meters away from a sainsburys store that is supposed to have killed them off?
And Stutts does not seem to have been put out of business either.
Your scenario of closed businesses is a fabricated nonsense; produce some evidence!
And before you go off trawling through the report commissioned by the lot who campaign for the protection of RURAL England; please put that report into the RURAL context in which it belongs. It is not relevant to a cityscape like Horfield, Bristol.
And take a trip down Cotham Hill/Whiteladies Rd and note the boarded up shops of which there are none. Ridiculous.
And note how SUSTRANS/Vivaldi et al PROMOTE the increased pedestrianisation of community shopping areas and the obstruction of car access in order to make the experience of foot shopping a more pleasant and viable alternative to the car and I think I might be forgiven for thinking that you lot are barking up the wrong tree.
Lastly do some simple Maths and work out how many tons of vegetables or Chickens or Flowers or Papers and Chocolate Bars you have to sell from a small shop today in order to make a living above and beyond paying your rent/rates/insurances and everything else and you may realise that for many it no longer stacks up to a worthwhile enterprise.
Couple that with the hours you have to put in and you soon realise there are far easier ways to make a living and there are very few businesses who see it as something they would wish for their own kids.
This above any other cause is what closes small shops.
Small shops that survive and thrive do so on hard work, good service and good product, or on doing something unique.
Blame it on competition and economics if you will but you will not change what the public want and that is best quality at the lowest price and convenience.
And for the future, consider if you will the carbon foot print of one Waitrose sized modern and efficient store in comparison to that of the number of small shops it would take to replace them; in terms of deliveries to them, heating of them, and everything else and i think you would come to the same conclusion as me, that overall the economies of scale associated with bulk supply harm the environment less.
Bristol City Council have trumpeted the positive impact of modernising bus services and promoting bike travel and developing foot paths on reducing car use in Bishopston; well surely it follows that if the public are offered the choices they would like to see in their community they will have less reason to venture out of it by car.
Whatever bogofs aims are they are not in tune with the evolving world, or the needs of your community and in view of your new strategic allegiances with the Anti Stadium group and the Resourcepool campaigners perhaps we should be wary of 'Bishopston Oppressed by a Glut of Socialists' who are plainly manipulating the community through
these campaigns to oppose any significant business initiative in the area irrespective of any positive impact it is likely to have.
Taking a look down this part of the Gloucester Road this morning, there are plenty of boarded up empty shops, and it has nothing to do with supermarket economics because the supermarket is not here yet.
perhaps the author of this comment would like to know that Somerfield is now the 2nd most profitable retailer in the UK behind Tescos. Your comments just display your ignorance of Somerfield as a company and the impact that a 20,000 sq ft store will have on the area. Maybe a few more boarded up shops attracting rubbish and fly tipping is what you're looking for perhaps?
If Somerfield is so wonderful, why did it recently come 47th in a WHICH? report on customer retail satisfaction? See link. I must admit that, although I'm not really a big fan of supermakets, the knowledge that I won't have to suffer shopping in Somerfield in Horfield again makes the proposed new Sainsburys much more appealing.
People in bishopstone are weird - they dont appear to want anything to open, be closed, be built, or like 4x4s, or anything.
That road is a pile of crap now anyway - thirty years ago it was a real place - now it's all chattering classes and ponsy shite whine bars and pretentious overpriced small shops, god knows why they love them so... It was all sown hill after the sun valley take away closed.
Bring on the supermarkets I say and a pox on the Bishopstone Nimbys.
by Mrs Mertons heated debate!Mon Mar 12, 2007 15:18
It is precisely because of the stadium expansion and its likely impact on trade that some retailers now want the store.
Without it and its parking football fans will fill all areas beyond the residents parking area and effectively kill off the prospect of people coming into the area to shop.
Not all the 300 + shops on the road rely on just local trade and they need people coming in from a much wider area to sustain their business as part of that diversity that is the Gloucester rd 'community'.
It appears to me that their is a selection of shops who are being protected by the actions of bogofs against the interests of the majority of businesses on the road.
You can see this from the leaflet and the businesses who support them; those who are for it are hardly likely to come out in public support; it would be bad for business.
We need a Sainsbury's! There won't be yet one more supermarket, as the BOGOFs say, because Somerfield won't stay around to compete for long. So we'll end up with the same number! For people in Horfield with no car, and especially people in Ashley Down, a proper supermarket would be great. Somerfield is just so bad, and has a poor range, though some of the staff are nice. And it won't affect the local traders immediately around - the reptile shop, hairdressers, indian restaurants, the craft shop etc etc etc. If it was further down in Bishopston the local traders may be affected, but not up in Ashley Down. I often walk down to Bishopston to buy specialties, and will continue to do that. But for every day, I'd like a properly functioning supermarket nearby, and Somerfield does not function properly.
I shop on the Glos. rd and its a great place because of the indie shops, it has plenty of supermarkets already and does not need another one. I support BOGOFs and oppose the new store.
make this your indymedia front page
Sunday February 04, 2007 20:31
by Sam
printable version
View Comments Titles Only
save preference
Comments (14 of 14)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14It wasn't that long ago that Sainsburys were kings of the supermarket profit race. Now its Tescos, in a few years it may well be someone else. So what, different name, same market policy.
Shurely the only good supermarket is the one that isn't there, at all, anywhere. Pie in the sky thinking perhaps? Well society/humanity survived for long enough without them before. They are only buildings, which can go up, and come down.
Shop local, recycle, consume less, live more.
For gods sake they are all supermarkets and they all compete with small businesses - One isnt intrinsically worse than the others (if you discount Scumerfield's gone-off veg and Sainsburys high prices). If you dont like it, then use one of the decent food shops in the area - eg Alex's veg, Scoopaway, The Breadstore. People go there because they sell good products.
I dont get it
Last week it was not 'another' supermarket from bogofs; now its not 'any' supermarket; unless perhaps Fresh and Wild or some other indy sanctioned purveyor of produce?
If you have any doubt about the 'need' for an alternative to the very poor faire on offer on the Gloucester Rd look no further than to the success of the Sainsburys Local since it opened where it is.
I buy groceries from Pawsons, meat from Stutts or Murrays and bread from Joes or the Breadstore. But I still go once a week to Tescos by car to do the family shop. Not because Im a fan of Tescos, but because its nearest.
With a real purveyor of produce on the block i wont have to; I can walk, my car journeys will be less; Ill still support my local shops who excel at what they do best, but they cant do it all and I dont have the time to hunt for the things I need in Local or Metro size convenience stores on a will they or wont they have it basis.
Sainsburys please! and a bigger one at that.
Comment on the planning application through this link. Apparently the council's website is dodgy and only works properly on Internet Explorer!
I am a local resident who for the last 6 months has been a member of BOGOFS.
BOGOFS stands for Bishopston Opposing Glut OF Supermarkets.
We are not anti-supermarkets. We are against this particular development only. This is a single issue campaign.
According to the application document that Sainsbury's have submitted, they are targetting around 25% of their trade from the local stores on the Gloucester Road.
The New Economics Foundation says that stores local to new supermarket developments who experience a 17% reduction in turnover WILL close down.
They will probably be offering, in order to compete with Tesco Golden Hill and Tesco Eastgate Centre, as well as general food, a fruit & veg section, a meat counter (i.e. in-house butcher), a bakery, cafe, photo-processing, off-licence, newsagents, Deli, Flowers and a Pharmacy.
I really hope that Pawsons, Stutts, Crawfords, Co-op, Cibo's, Licata's, Joe's, Pearce's, Cafe 2000, Romantica, Daltons, Rosebud, Soods, Ashgrove Pharmacy et al can remain competitive because if they can't they will close down and be replaced by estate agents, charity shops and bookies.
I used to work for Marcus Wells, who owns the Breadstore, when he ran the Sunflower bakery - where Tim Franklin's Star Cafe is now. You may have eaten one of my hand-crafted croissants or jammy doughnuts. Even he closed down. Why? He told me that he was unable to compete with Somerfield.
If that is the effect of the small Somerfield store on his bakery, what will be the effect of a Sainsbury's store 4 times the size of Somerfield be on the Gloucester Road? I hate to think.
I would strongy suggest that you read the application and see what it entails. The devil as they say is in the detail.
For example, 156 space car park, expected number of cars entering the site during peak period, 194. Presumably these cars are going to be backed up along Merton Road waiting to get into the car park. I think that a queue of 38 cars will probably stretch the length of Merton Road and back onto the Gloucester Road, which is also planned to be narrowed outside Horders. What do you think will be the impact of cars queueing on teh Gloucester Road to get into Merton Road?This data is supplied by the transport consultant that Sainsbury's employed for the development and taken by me from the application document.
All BOGOFS is saying is that the retail trade pie for the Gloucester Road should be shared not gobbled up by a single major supermarket development.
Bristol City Council itself recognises that this area of Bristol suffers from a severe lack of light industrial and office space. This area does not suffer from lack of retail space as you are doubtless aware.
If you would like to meet the BOGOFS group to discuss this issue further please come to one of our numerous public meetings - all advertised on www.bogofs.org.
When Marcus closed down the Breadstore in Horfield he told me it was because the strain of running TWO successful bread shops on his time and family was too much and someting had to give.
And mark this; if what you say is true, howcome Joes are still a thriving bakery less than 50 meters away from a sainsburys store that is supposed to have killed them off?
And Stutts does not seem to have been put out of business either.
Your scenario of closed businesses is a fabricated nonsense; produce some evidence!
And before you go off trawling through the report commissioned by the lot who campaign for the protection of RURAL England; please put that report into the RURAL context in which it belongs. It is not relevant to a cityscape like Horfield, Bristol.
And take a trip down Cotham Hill/Whiteladies Rd and note the boarded up shops of which there are none. Ridiculous.
And note how SUSTRANS/Vivaldi et al PROMOTE the increased pedestrianisation of community shopping areas and the obstruction of car access in order to make the experience of foot shopping a more pleasant and viable alternative to the car and I think I might be forgiven for thinking that you lot are barking up the wrong tree.
Lastly do some simple Maths and work out how many tons of vegetables or Chickens or Flowers or Papers and Chocolate Bars you have to sell from a small shop today in order to make a living above and beyond paying your rent/rates/insurances and everything else and you may realise that for many it no longer stacks up to a worthwhile enterprise.
Couple that with the hours you have to put in and you soon realise there are far easier ways to make a living and there are very few businesses who see it as something they would wish for their own kids.
This above any other cause is what closes small shops.
Small shops that survive and thrive do so on hard work, good service and good product, or on doing something unique.
Blame it on competition and economics if you will but you will not change what the public want and that is best quality at the lowest price and convenience.
And for the future, consider if you will the carbon foot print of one Waitrose sized modern and efficient store in comparison to that of the number of small shops it would take to replace them; in terms of deliveries to them, heating of them, and everything else and i think you would come to the same conclusion as me, that overall the economies of scale associated with bulk supply harm the environment less.
Bristol City Council have trumpeted the positive impact of modernising bus services and promoting bike travel and developing foot paths on reducing car use in Bishopston; well surely it follows that if the public are offered the choices they would like to see in their community they will have less reason to venture out of it by car.
Whatever bogofs aims are they are not in tune with the evolving world, or the needs of your community and in view of your new strategic allegiances with the Anti Stadium group and the Resourcepool campaigners perhaps we should be wary of 'Bishopston Oppressed by a Glut of Socialists' who are plainly manipulating the community through
these campaigns to oppose any significant business initiative in the area irrespective of any positive impact it is likely to have.
Taking a look down this part of the Gloucester Road this morning, there are plenty of boarded up empty shops, and it has nothing to do with supermarket economics because the supermarket is not here yet.
perhaps the author of this comment would like to know that Somerfield is now the 2nd most profitable retailer in the UK behind Tescos. Your comments just display your ignorance of Somerfield as a company and the impact that a 20,000 sq ft store will have on the area. Maybe a few more boarded up shops attracting rubbish and fly tipping is what you're looking for perhaps?
If Somerfield is so wonderful, why did it recently come 47th in a WHICH? report on customer retail satisfaction? See link. I must admit that, although I'm not really a big fan of supermakets, the knowledge that I won't have to suffer shopping in Somerfield in Horfield again makes the proposed new Sainsburys much more appealing.
People in bishopstone are weird - they dont appear to want anything to open, be closed, be built, or like 4x4s, or anything.
That road is a pile of crap now anyway - thirty years ago it was a real place - now it's all chattering classes and ponsy shite whine bars and pretentious overpriced small shops, god knows why they love them so... It was all sown hill after the sun valley take away closed.
Bring on the supermarkets I say and a pox on the Bishopstone Nimbys.
Can't understand all the comments from people who want yet another supermarket. Isn't 9 within walking distance enough?
This new Sainsbury's would destroy the unique shopping experience that is Gloucester Rd and cause traffic chaos at the beginning of Ashley Down Road.
That's in addition to the extra traffic from the Rovers ground expansion.
Worst place for a supermarket imaginable.
i always though that shops should be put where the shops actually are.
makes people go to the shops instead of all over and makes the shopkeepers happy cause busy streets equals lots of customers.
Gloucester Rd is thriving BECAUSE of its MIX of 300 shops and no other reason; one more or less makes no difference, to anyone.
and traffic is just a by product of shopping, cant have the shops without the traffic unless you shut down the streets
How about campaigning for something worthwhile, like Palestine or something
It is precisely because of the stadium expansion and its likely impact on trade that some retailers now want the store.
Without it and its parking football fans will fill all areas beyond the residents parking area and effectively kill off the prospect of people coming into the area to shop.
Not all the 300 + shops on the road rely on just local trade and they need people coming in from a much wider area to sustain their business as part of that diversity that is the Gloucester rd 'community'.
It appears to me that their is a selection of shops who are being protected by the actions of bogofs against the interests of the majority of businesses on the road.
You can see this from the leaflet and the businesses who support them; those who are for it are hardly likely to come out in public support; it would be bad for business.
But what do we care; its all capitalism anyway.
We need a Sainsbury's! There won't be yet one more supermarket, as the BOGOFs say, because Somerfield won't stay around to compete for long. So we'll end up with the same number! For people in Horfield with no car, and especially people in Ashley Down, a proper supermarket would be great. Somerfield is just so bad, and has a poor range, though some of the staff are nice. And it won't affect the local traders immediately around - the reptile shop, hairdressers, indian restaurants, the craft shop etc etc etc. If it was further down in Bishopston the local traders may be affected, but not up in Ashley Down. I often walk down to Bishopston to buy specialties, and will continue to do that. But for every day, I'd like a properly functioning supermarket nearby, and Somerfield does not function properly.
I shop on the Glos. rd and its a great place because of the indie shops, it has plenty of supermarkets already and does not need another one. I support BOGOFs and oppose the new store.