Report of Shoe Protest at Raytheon Sat 20th December

by Ed Hill Sun Dec 21, 2008 22:34

Campaign is still looking for more help on legal and research support.

Please get in touch.

by Tony Notgoz Mon Dec 22, 2008 03:34

Where were our clergy on Saturday 20th December, do they have no moral view-point on the continued use of cluster-bombs guided by Raytheon? And where were our doctors who know the devastation that this diabolical weaponry has on the human gene-pool? GP’s who know that depleted uranium affects not only the poor people we are massacring - I will not stoop so low as to call them our enemies, it is WE who took over their country, illegally – but also our invading troops ingesting DU. And as the lady who took the megaphone at the demo said, “these effects will last for generations and it is a sin against man and it is a sin against God.”

And where were Bristol’s MP’s? Where were the Kerry McCarthys, the Steve Williams’, the Steve Webbs? Can they not see what is so blatantly obvious to the rest of us, that there will be no end to the wars wreaked by these Corporate Terrorists of Greed. They come from the same stable as the voracious bankers who have recently fcuked our economy with their greed, and their acquisitive lust is equally insatiable.

The production of weapons designed to kill civilians is a war crime, for it is official, at least seven eighths of the deaths in our corporate greed driven wars in the Middle East are civilians. How can our MP’s turn a blind eye and leave these heroes on the roof-top of Raytheon, who are trying to awaken us to these atrocities being committed in our name, and leave them to the mercy of our bullying police?

And where were you, good people of Bristol, some folk came all the way from Brighton and from Sheffield, couldn’t you even have made it up from Cabot Circus? You who have rightly been vociferously calling for solidarity with the Greek rioters on this very site, just in case it escaped your notice there is a boil needs lancing on our own doorstep.

And now Raytheon, so that they can continue their unacceptable weaponry development unhindered by rightful protestors, are developing micro-wave crowd control devices. So we won’t complain too loudly for fear of excruciating pain.

How can the afore-mentioned MP’s allow this to happen? Will they, along with the clergy, the GP’s, and the other leading members of our society, walk by on the other side and just pretend Raytheon isn’t there? It’s astounding.

Do you really want to live in a country where people are frightened to stand up for what is right? Frightened of being tazered by our bully-boy police if we don’t respectfully doff our caps and mumble “Yes Sir, No Sir”. All the time despising them for the enthusiastic protection they give to war criminals Raytheon?

Yes, war criminals Raytheon - in a recent court case in Derry, protestors were cleared of all charges of damage to Raytheon property. They were cleared on the grounds that the damage the protestors did in an attempt to prevent excessive civilian casualties, was less than that committed by Raytheon, with their killing machines, on civilians.

Time is running out and our freedom is in peril, out of respect of the many thousands of civilians already callously killed by Raytheon devices, and in the hope that we may prevent some suffering in the future, we should support the Raytheon roofers.

by author required Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:37

Where were we?

i think you can take it from the numbers that your campaign lacks any popular support .

most people generally dont care about raytheon or what it does; they are busy keeping the wolf from their door; feeding their families and keeping a roof over their heads; the remainder are out carolling and trying to bring some cheer into their own communities. dont you get it ?

Charity begins at home; even more so in these times.

by wntrmute Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:50

Why not a wind up one?

by Ed Hill Mon Dec 22, 2008 13:32

This protest against Raytheon has sprung up almost spontaneously taking most of the campaign movements in Bristol unawares. Particularly at this time of year many people are busy. But the answer isn’t to give up and go away. It is to sustain the protest, spread the word, and build the movement.

But maybe we can all speculate as to the true motives of the previous contributor.

“…most people generally don’t care about Raytheon or what it does…”

Taking their comment at face value do they mean that most people didn’t care about gaining Trade Union rights, Women getting the Vote, the end of the Colour-Bar, etc etc.

Or are they wasting people’s time and draining their energies deliberately to detract from the progress of the protest?

If they themselves really believe that cluster-bombs are fun, DU is healthy, and that war is a lucrative lark we should all share in, then they should say so, or shut up.

by Mell O Mon Dec 22, 2008 18:21

When you say "Most people" ............. are you talking locally, nationally, or internationally?

Or are you talking about you and you mates in the pub?

Did you do some kind of poll?

What exactly is your statement "Most people" based on in terms of numbers?

by frank Mon Dec 22, 2008 20:00

Bless You

by Jog Mon Dec 22, 2008 22:01

... I would have thought that extrapolating from a turnout of 20, (from Bristol, Sheffield & Brighton)....

you could calculate by totalling the populations of those 3 cities, then minus 20 = "most people".... by any definition...

by Tony Notgoz Mon Dec 22, 2008 23:40

Typical of a cynic and detractor, to miss out a vital component, "CARE", in order to validate his argument.

The original argument was most people don't CARE, and that argument was demolished by Ed Hill and Mell O.

Jog distorts the situation by claiming that only those who were able to attend this protest signifies the sum total of people who actually CARE about war criminals Raytheon vapourising fellow human beings.

Jog, that's rubbish.

And to the Raytheon Roofers, may I echo Frank's sentiment, "Bless You."

by reindeer Tue Dec 23, 2008 02:26

wolf article was meant to be a comment to the comment people don't care about what Raytheon does.
sorry computer novice! pressed the wrong buttons!

by reindeer Tue Dec 23, 2008 03:44

AT LEAST WE HAVE A HOME

most people are keeping the wolf from the door because of the greedy bankers and our taxes spent on funding this war & making arms companies like Raytheon richer.
If people don't care it's because the media is collaborating with the government and the arms companies to keep the real news out. How often do you see the reality of people's lives in Iraq on tv or any anti war arguement on TV?
The majority of this country is against these illegal foreign interventions, our soldier's lives are being wasted poisoned by the same weapons that have devastated Iraq.
Charity indeed begins at home, Raytheon is robbing of a future .
The invasion of Iraq is yet another shameful chapter in our history and at least people in this country have a door to keep the wolf from , while Fallujah, a city the size of Bristol, exists as rubble, and the people of fallujah are mourning the loss of their children, parents and loved ones.
If people don't care it's because they are being lied to, while the media makes a meal of the likes of baby P we are slaughtering and maiming thousands of children in Iraq and Afghanistan with indiscriminate weapons made by the likes of Raytheon.
COME ON BRISTOL LET'S BRING THESE ARMS COMPANIES TO TRIAL!

by Jog Tue Dec 23, 2008 08:21

My point is that if you count a protest as a success, when (unfortunately) the numbers seem to indicate otherwise you are making a mistake... & a big one...

It is no better than Blunkett's comment some years ago that apathy with politics means that people are content, it's meaningless.

Sadly, it's not that people care, or don't care. I'd be suprised if most/majority of people have even heard of Raytheon, or what they do. That does have implications for how campaigns are conducted, & who gets to hear about them, & so how successful they are. Running these kinds of campaigns in a city with such a high % of jobs dependant on the defence industry is difficult.

If you think different or think I'm just trolling, then you're free to do so.... I'd say that you just don't like uncomfortable truths..... but, that only my opinion as well.......

by reindeer Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:55

That is why there is a protest so people get to hear what is going and who is responsible for the war crimes that are being committed. As our official media is not informing us.

The seed is planted and it is growing...we are all learning all the time... and of course we all need each other to make a change... the point of the protest is:
- to bring Raytheon to the attention of the authorities that international law exists,and that the likes of raytheon have been functioning illegally for years
-that International law is being broken every day in Bristol
- to make the individuals who work for them aware they are partaking in war crime and that the other people in the building are harbouring war criminals.
-that it is our civil duty to stop a greater crime from happening

That business park is full of Arms dealers and the people on the roof are making us aware of the shame of Bristol.
2 million of us marched in London against the illegal occupation of Iraq, There has been a peace vigil in Bristol everyday since the threat of war was first expressed.
Iraqis have suffered an unbearable aftermath as a consequence of this occupation and we as a city are well implicated in this war crime, like we were of the crime of slavery.
Companies like Raytheon are plotting mass murder daily with a yearly turnover budget of $20 billion dollars, we will not be successful until everyone of these arms industries are dismantled and we reclaim the land we are living on for the purposes of a better peaceful and sustainable future, we would be naive to think that that could be achieved in one rooftop protest, this is work that will require the effort of generations

by integrated circuit Tue Dec 23, 2008 14:21

"2 million of us marched in London against the illegal occupation of Iraq"

Very true, but this took 6 months and more to build, plan and publicise, and although it was also a matter of the heat of the historical moment, unlikely to be repeated even with such advance planning, in the years since 15th Feb 2003 the notion of advance planning seems to have fizzled away to next to nothing, and now getting people to post with a week's notice, let alone a month or more has become like getting blood out of a stone.

Keep building, yes.

More direct action, yes.

But thinking that sending half a dozen emails at short notice (overloading people's inboxes with duplicates in the process), will have the same effect as sending 3 preplanned emails over the course of a month or more, and that'll you get the same turnout, is the mistake made by group after group, time after time, and it only seems to get worse.

If the 15th Feb 2003 demo had being given the same treatment, and the same lack of advance notice as most events are nowadays given, then we would have been lucky to get 3,000 on that demo, let alone 2 million. And 3,000 odd people is what the recent climate demo in London managed with their ridiculous 6 days notice for a national demo!

by bristol wepons inspector Wed Dec 24, 2008 03:19

Organisation is power and we all organise in different ways...so we need each other!

There were quite a few vigils and direct action leading up to the roof occupation.

The nature of the event itself could not be publicised.
We all worked hard in the anti war movement at different levels at establishing the email network . It was established so that we could act together not just meet to discuss why the war has happened.
(as important as that is)

The arms companies are continuing to produce ever more lethal weapons while we continue to debate the nature of the war, while not looking directly on our own doorstep.

The action is there to generate a serious look at Bristols contribution to the war effort and what alternatives are possible .
Think global act local has never been more apt than now.

Bristol is completely and utterly implicated in war crimes and sooner or later we would have come to this conclusion.
It is up to each one of us to make that decision, do we support the campaign to shut down Raytheon ?

However many of us turn up does not take away the fact that Raytheon are war criminals,active in our city and responsible for developing weapons of mass and indiscriminate destruction.
The question is for how much longer?

by integrated circuit Wed Dec 24, 2008 07:29

"The nature of the event itself could not be publicised."

You could have publicised a major christmas demo/vigil months ahead, and built up support and publicity around that. No need to reveal that you planned to get on the roof in the days or week beforehand. They may have suspected it sure, but I can't see them manning 24hr security to prevent that, and even if they do, that's no great barrier either, necessarily. Fairford was manned 24hrs a day, literally, and people still got inside there with preplanned demos going on outside.

"We all worked hard in the anti war movement at different levels at establishing the email network"

No strictly true. The Bristol Social Forum list in particular was built up and maintained, almost entirely by one person, to the point of breaking their health. Everyone else walked away from the Bristol Social Forum. It would have died for lack of support, not least the complete lack of support and consideration for the person who lost their health building it in the years since everyone else abandoned it, and the chronically ill individual who kept it alive, and in another 5 yrs , if all groups keep expecting their short notice posts to be posted, with no regard or consideration for the frequency of much mail these groups can bear without losing subscribers, then there won't be a Bristol Social Forum, because it will have withered away under the barrage of short notice posts, from all directions.

"It is up to each one of us to make that decision, do we support the campaign to shut down Raytheon ?"

You need to improve your planning. Detracting from that by posing it as a moral question to committed activists, especially one who have given their health to build these networks, doesn't fill that organisational gap. Nobody else can be bothered to do the tedious, exhausting admin work, which never ends to maintain these lists, at an organisational peak, while the national network has withered, and if you lose that individual who is still currently maintaining them, while still chronically ill, then you might realise that mutual support doesn't only involve supporting those in the frontline getting on roofs.

by author required Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:20

"However many of us turn up does not take away the fact that Raytheon are war criminals"

An interesting line of thought; even real war criminals get a trial before they are hung; and it may be arguable that to manufacture is not to deploy and that the real criminal may actually be the ordinary joe who pressed the button; or the commander that raised the order or even the government that entered the war; but not raytheon.

I doubt whether any of their weapons are designed to commit a crime; they may even argue that they manufacture deterrents and have no hand in the wars that are waged by their customers.

Of course the airfield complex just across town where the engines are built that power the jets that deploy the weapons is invisible to you.

So it continues, the 'fringe' live out their lifestyle aspirations by nicking the janitors mop and deluding each other that they are having an impact on the world.

Merry Christmas.

by Emma Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:40

It is hard enough to get 5 people together over Christmas, never mind 30 so I think you have done a great job - and it is a great protest - I didn't even know they were in Bristol or what they did so for me you have highlighted an important issue and I think what you are doing is great. Best wishes to all those to stand up for what they believe in!

by Anarchist606 Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:57

There is no place in Bristol for makers of cluster bombs. Keep up the good work.

by bristol weapons inspector Wed Dec 24, 2008 13:34

Sorry u are ill. Many activists get burnt out...and put their well being on the line...i do not devalue your work some of us are inexperienced at using the forums...different skills... I am sure it is getting noted...what I meant is people on the ground collecting contacts helped to build the network.
I didn't mean to devalue what u r doing
People do what they can do and vigils and visits to the site are welcome, whatever the size.

AS FOR THE COMMENT ON THE FRINGE

We are very well aware of what is going on in that weapons park , at the MOD , At British Aerospace and Rolls Royce that is why the protest has started.

It is forbidden by international law to make weapons of Mass and indiscriminate destruction and for governments to procure these weapons in the knowledge that they are indiscriminate..

The missiles that Raytheon makes are fired from planes and ships they are made to cause maximum damage to their target, without the weapon in the first place there is very little damage that an individual could do.

by bristol weapons inspectors Wed Dec 24, 2008 14:00

For clarity: Raytheon makes the missiles that carry cluster bombs. bunker busters, communication systems, silent guardian... check their web site

by Tony Notgoz Wed Dec 24, 2008 20:57

Just a small list from Raytheon’s extensive war criminal activities, taken from the research done for a previous trial of Raytheon protestors, the “Raytheon 9” at Derry, they were acquitted. The full text can be found at:-

http://www.raytheon9.org/home.html

1. International Law holds individuals and corporations liable for
supplying governments with weapons that are used to commit war crimes
and crimes against humanity. International law defines the destruction
of ‘objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population’,
and the use of weapons and tactics that cannot distinguish between
combatants and non-combatants as war crimes.
The National Lawyers Guild of the US identified Raytheon (RSL’s parent
company) as one of the arms dealers whose “acts constitute a war crime
and in some cases crimes against humanity”.
http://www.nlg.org/mideast/resolutions/resolutions.shtml

Raytheon Systems Limited (RSL) is the UK subsidiary of the US company
Raytheon, one of the largest arms manufacturers in the world. A
spokesperson said “As such, RSL has its fingers in many pies including
RSL and Raytheon being at the frontline of enabling the US’s ‘Star Wars’
system to go ahead.”

One of the activists, retired schoolteacher Irene Willis, 63 stated,
“RSL’s actions should be fully investigated. International Law holds a
corporation liable when it knowingly supplies weapons that are used to
commit war crimes and crimes against humanity.”[1]

• RSL Glenrothes manufacture the GPS-aided navigation system and control
systems for the Paveway guided “bunker busting” bombs produced in the US
and sold to Israel who used them in their war on Lebanon July/Aug
2006.[2] Nine people face trial on May 19th for taking action against
RSL Derry, to try to stop the bombing of innocent civilians in Lebanon
during the Israeli-Lebanon war.[3]

• Raytheon is enabling Israeli forces to engage in practices that
violate international law, UN Resolutions and the human rights of the
Palestinian people through being a major manufacturer of munitions used
by the Israeli army. Raytheon has also supplied electronic equipment for
the Israeli Wall.

• Raytheon's Paveway guided bomb system, was “the most widely used
precision munition in Operation Iraqi Freedom. More than 8,700 were
dropped.”[4] We are all now well aware of the illegal basis of the Iraqi
war, its failure to find any WMD’s and its ongoing toll on the civilian
population.

• RSL’s part in the lucrative ‘War on Terror’ is continuing – with the
U.S. stockpiling in preparedness for any possible aggression with Iran. [5]

by vertov Thu Dec 25, 2008 20:42

Most protests are personal - driven by something it is hard to share. Sadly too often it is vanity. But when it isnt it is a precious thing.

by author required Mon Dec 29, 2008 13:10

"It is forbidden by international law to make weapons of Mass and indiscriminate destruction and for governments to procure these weapons in the knowledge that they are indiscriminate."

Who makes international law and who enforces it ?