ban the edl march

by Dan Ashton - Bristol AF Thu May 10, 2012 19:23

We do not need the state to ban the EDL march for us. The EDL should be resisted on the streets by the people. The We Are Bristol group formed to build for a counter demonstration also does not plan to try to get the EDL banned from Bristol but to counter them on the streets.

by normo Fri May 11, 2012 23:33

Oh, go and peddle your Hard Man Of Trumpton fantasies somewhere else. You go live on an island of everyone for themselves and survival of the fittest if you like, I prefer civilisation myself.

I will be glad to sign a petition to keep the EDL out. We don't want racists marching through our city for the same reason we don't want rapists, muggers and child molesters rampaging around at will. Like the aforementioned the EDL are criminals. It is the job of the police to deal with criminals, I don't want to have to deal with them myself. That's why we pay tax. So yes let's get this thing stopped.

by DEFEND BRISTOL FROM RACIST HATRED Fri May 11, 2012 23:57

DEFEND BRISTOL FROM RACIST HATRED

by Anti-fascist Sat May 12, 2012 10:06

This article has a go at explaining why liberal anti-fascism should be resisted: http://emaf.noblogs.org/post/2012/04/30/why-liberal-ant...rt-1/

See for example:
"Anti-fascists who call for the state to ban fascist marches, groups and symbols are playing an extremely dangerous game as such state intervention is frequently also turned against them. For example, Searchlight and other liberal anti-fascists trumpeted Home Secretary Theresa May’s ban on the EDL marching in Tower Hamlets in August last year. However, the Home Office used this opportunity to ban all marches in Tower Hamlets and four other London boroughs for an entire month, which conveniently also banned anti-militarist marches against the DSEI arms fair, East London LGBT Pride and anti-cuts protests. The state will use the cover of banning ‘extremists’ (who are as likely to be people fighting for freedom as fascists or religious militants) to further its own controlling and policing agendas, which are usually fundamentally opposed to the interests of those who want to fight fascism."

by Dan Ashton Sat May 12, 2012 10:40

Hard Man? You've not met me have you?

Nothing about being macho and everything to do with not wanting state interference because of this http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100102...lism/

Also you can pay as much tax to the police as you want it wont make them stop the EDL, The cops facilitate pre-planned marches, the last time I saw the right-wing march the cops were clearing a path for them.

Rampaging child molesters eh? Where's the petition against that?

by normo Sat May 12, 2012 12:17

Sorry I'm getting a page not found from your ToryGraph link.

Fascists are basically criminals. They're a bunch of nail bombers. I don't want to live in a world where we have to deal with criminals ourselves. I want the state to sling them in the cooler for me. Why is this a bad thing?

Don't get me wrong, if people have to fight, that's fair enough, but there's a certain stink of machismo about this whole "confront the fascists on the streets" thing. I don't want the far right to start yet another riot, this time in my city. I'm afraid of what this could lead to. A few years down the line, people could be getting shot by these bastards.

They're basically terrorists as far as I'm concerned; they directly inspired Breivik and many of them have been caught stockpiling weapons. You want civil war? Really? I suggest you visit sunny Iraq before you fetishise violence.

Oh and don't call me a liberal. I'm not a fluffy, either, before you call me a pacifist - to paraphrase an excellent anti-war movie*, violence is like London, sometimes it is a tragic neccesity, true, but once you've seen it and you know what it's about, you don't want to go there unless you really fucking have to.

* In The Loop

by Ay Carmela! Sat May 12, 2012 12:37

@ normo

Great to see you like cops and taxes – im not a fan of either myself,
but that’s not really the point here,
we're talking about whether there is any point in a petition calling for a ban on fascists marching.

So to bring you back from your jack boot fantasy to the real world....

could you or the original poster

Provide one (just one) example, from anywhere, at any-time that calling for banning a fascist march achieved anything at all?

ta

by Ay Carmela! Sat May 12, 2012 12:54

oh! I see now why you like taxes.....your a taxman!

Ah well! takes all sorts
as I said before thats a different argument
We can all at least agree on anti fascism eh.

My question is tactical not ideological.

Still fancy a coherent answer though.

by Dan Ashton Sat May 12, 2012 15:37

Dont now why the link doesnt work, pasted it properly

Trying again: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100102...lism/

Or just search for it from the title

by Uncomfortable Sat May 12, 2012 17:41

In opposing one form of totalitarianism (fascism) the anti-fascists seem always to end up supporting another (democracy). To sign this petition is to ask for a stronger state. Fuck that, its already totalitarian enough.

Calling all our enemies fascist doesn't help us understand it. And seeing it as the ultimate evil only benefits the "lesser evil" forms of the state; the fight against fascism has only ever seemed to benefit the state as a whole. Besides which, fascism is currently irrelevant and has only ever risen in the aftermath of defeated revolutions - revolutions defeated by social democracy(so beware of leftists).

Racism is something we certainly need to deal with but I'm not sure street brawls and such spectacle really help. Having said that, community self-defence is always justified in the case of violent attacks and certainly thugs like this needed to be responded to somehow.

Just remember that after your lobbying and your shouting and you street brawl; the only winner is the state I know so many of you claim to despise.

by normo Mon May 14, 2012 02:20

What do you want? Survival of the fittest? Everyone for themselves? Sounds a bit too much like what we've got now, even down to the right-wing anti-tax fantasy. Perhaps you would be more at home in the Tory party.

by CHump Mon May 14, 2012 10:10

Nobody needs the EDL but capitalists & other fascists

by Tracey H Mon May 14, 2012 10:16

I've nothing against the rehabilitation of offenders obviously, but while in gaol the EDL should be shown the 'political' error of their ways - but that might be a little difficult if the warders are fascists too...

by normo Mon May 14, 2012 12:30

PS - in response to your question, Ay Carmela, the EDL were going to march through Easton a coupe of years ago. The march was banned and a lot of arseache, including racial attacks and an increase in tensions accross the board, was avoided. Pretty simple maths, huh Carmela?

EDL + "free speech" = race attacks, damage, police hassle, bullshit.
EDL - "free speech" = no problems.

Or do you anarchos want to give free speech to nonces as well? Because as far as I'm concerned your fascist is the political equivelant of a child molester; free speech does not apply to people who want to bring racial hatred to our streets just as it does not apply to peados. End of. So now who's the "liberal"?

by Ay Carmela! Wed May 16, 2012 10:38

Just to be clear I didn't call you a liberal or any names at all.

I am responsible for the Carmela posts alone.

I apologise if you are not the Original Poster and felt “Taxman” was name calling, it wasn't, I was referring to the OP's apparent profession in the context of not wanting it to be an issue between us.

Incidentally the article which Dan Ashton of the Anarchist Federation refers to above was written in the Telegraph by the current editor of Spiked magazine formally of Living Marxism and was heavily promoted by the EDL on their website at the time of the ban last year which spectacularly back fired on the UAF in east London. You couldn't make this up!

Whilst the telegraph, LM and EDL are obviously all entities I despise, the article makes a considerable number of salient points, I suggest you read it before invoking nonces again.

Invoking nonces is the kind of I cant debate so I’ll say something shocking nonsense that the far right are so very fond of, please don’t demean yourself in this way.

by Englander Wed May 16, 2012 22:08

Confirmed with police and council today. March is going ahead. Excellent.

by normo Thu May 17, 2012 17:34

You must be very proud of your ability to intimidate people and attack immigrants. Well done! You've raised the violence level another ten points. Let a thousand Breiviks bloom huh?

by 'kinell Thu May 17, 2012 18:45

the fascists are coming to town, what should we do I wonder.....

by mrcharles Wed Jun 13, 2012 17:41

I have thought about this long and hard, done quite a bit of soul searching and in the end I have decided to sign the ban.

Firstly, the devision I am seeing here in sides that oppose the EDL is heartbreaking. Surely we should be together in stopping racist hatred as solidarity is the key? Instead of wasting this time spurting intellectual put down on each other, shouldn't we devote this energy to stopping the EDL?

The main argument people seem to be making is the opposition to state intervention in protest and free speech - which is what I, myself, have been worried about. However, shouldn't each protest be taken on its own merit The argument that, 'if we ban the EDL then who's to say another group won't be banned?' seems inept to me.

No-one or very few, are going to oppose a peaceful anti-war protest for example, therefore, there would be no reason for it to be banned!

At the end of the day the EDL are a vile and rotten organisation that make me feel ashamed of humanity. If we do ban them, they may still come - but at least it will have to be a static protest so they don't parade there message (not to mention keeping them far away from the Pride celebrations) and at least we will have sent a strong political message that they are not welcome.

The streets of Bristol are a vibrant mix of multiculturalism and they are not welcome here. Please sign the Ban and show your support xx